Why Having Partners and Building a Partner Program Are Not the Same Thing — Stefano Sengos

A partner within Ramp is someone whose business becomes stronger when their clients are using and succeeding on our product. For us, like the best types of partnerships aren't just like transactional and getting clients on board, but it's where we can provide a lot of value to them, make their lives a lot easier, and allow them to provide a lot more value to their clients through through our systems. A lot of companies stumble into partnerships. They get a referral and then it works and so they call it a channel. But there's a massive difference between having partners and then actually building a partner program, especially one that generates high trust, high intent opportunities that scale your business. And so, here's the one thing about partnerships that most people get wrong. A partner is not just a lead source. They are putting their reputation on the line every time they introduce you to one of their clients. And that changes everything about how you have to earn the relationship, enable them, and then deliver on the promises that you and they have made. So today's guest, Stefano Sengos, is a channel partnerships manager at Ramp, one of the fastest growing fintech companies in the world.

And Stefano manages the full motion from finding the right partners to enabling them to represent Ramp and then making sure that the first 30 to 60 days of the customer relationship is a success. And so today's episode is all about what it actually takes to build a partner channel that works, not just one that exists. Let's jump in. All right, Stefano, welcome to the show, man.

Appreciate you having me.

Oh, man. I've been looking forward to this. It's been a couple weeks since we first connected, and I think for this show, for this audience, this is going to be a really unique episode, a really unique conversation, and I think it's going to bring some unique points of value. Obviously, I think a lot of folks watching this show are building out retention systems, thinking about product activation, thinking about, you know, customer success broad terms, but you are leading partnerships at probably one of the most recognized brands in the world and expense management over at Ramp. And so, I couldn't be more grateful for you to take some time out on a Friday than to sit down and share your insights with the audience today. I think partnerships are one unique and time inensive and so it's like we have partners but we don't we don't maybe give it the same energy and so I'm really really intrigued about what you're doing. I can't wait to learn about what you're doing and I hope anyone that has a chance to tune in today hear the episode whatever format you hear it takes the time to find some meaningful moments in the episode that matter to you because building out partnerships in today's world is different. It's unique and it could be a real differentiator to grow your business. So, I'm so pumped. Thank you for being here.

Oh, appreciate you having me. I'm very excited to to kind of get into it.

Yeah, man. So, in the context of ramp, like you guys are massive. You're onboarding thousands, tens of thousands of customers. I mean, you're at a scale that is quite impressive. Walk me through on the partner side, right? Like who a ramp partner actually is in the context and we'll use that framing for the rest of the conversation today. I will say partnerships like amongst other like any other company can mean a few different things, but within Ramp, it really comes down to a partner within Ramp is someone whose business becomes stronger when their clients are using and succeeding on our product. Being that we're an accounting first product, we tend to lean towards the accounting space. So a lot of the partners we work with are CPA firms, fractional CFOs, bookkeepers, any real professional or or or segment u that it is just bogged down with a lot of you know tedious and like manual tasks. And I can't think of you know an industry more aligned there than uh than than the accounting space. So like for us like the best types of partnerships aren't just like transactional and getting clients on board but it's where we can provide a lot of value to them, make their lives a lot easier and allow them to provide a lot more value to their clients through through our system. So for us it's any business that's like really trying to just provide added layers of service to their clients without really being bogged down with things they don't frankly want to do. And that's what we look for within Ramp.

I love that. So it's really like a you guys are bringing a level of infrastructure to like CPAs and accounting firms and bookkeepers and all of that for the corporate side. So you're giving them value they didn't have in house or maybe just overly manual previous versions of systems and then uh and then as a result of the the partnership they get to exceed and overd deliver for their clients at the same time.

Oh that's cool.

What I think is unique about our conversation today is that um When you and I first met, you were talking about how like, hey, I'm I'm not just post sale. I'm managing like the full cycle of of a partner's journey. I would love to know more about that.

Could we dig in there? Walk me through like what the partner journey might look like either from the moment you meet them or identify partners all the way through like onboarding them.

100%. And to give context to to the audience, I've I've had experience on pre and post sales. And one thing I love about partnerships, what you alluded to, is it really kind of spans the full spectrum of pre and post sales and you really get to see the full cycle of a of a sales process. So like in terms of like my specific role and like what I what I do and where it starts is really getting that first introductory call with a potential partner. In that type of call, it's very focused on understanding what their current process is, what their strategy is, what their incentives, and like what what really kind of gets them going. Is it more financial incentives? Is it workflow incentives? and understand could they be a good partner and could ramp really provide a lot of value to both them as uh for their business as well as their clients. After that it really if it's if we're putting our thumbs up and it looks good it's very I really focus on enablement and training and making sure okay they're bought into ramp and and what we're offering but now let's get them equipped to really be you know or like advocate and champion. So spent a lot of time after we kind of gang them on as a partner, enabling them, getting them as much information as possible on the system and what it takes to be a great partner. And then after that, the the floodgates open and we and we really start with, you know, getting clients of theirs on ramp. And then from there, that's where like the pre and post sales kind of comes into play because I'll help out get those cl getting those clients across the finish line from that introductory call and passing over to our CSN team and and onboarding team and making sure that the level of you know of work and and what what I promise throughout the process is consistent not just from the beginning but even when clients are getting onboarded and starting to use the platform a little more efficiently.

Yeah, man. Sounds like setting expectations and then like kind of managing those, finding the right fit. I guess you mentioned training and enablement. Obviously that rings a bell and like ding tell me more. I am curious though like what is the what are some of the uniquenesses maybe between like when you bring on a partner versus when you're just going straight to the business? Like what's the difference in journey there or like what what additional layers are added there in the partner motion?

Yeah, I think it really comes down very simply to just like motivation. I think when you're comparing a partner versus just a single business, their motivations are completely different.

When it comes to the business that might just use ramp, they're looking for ways to automate their workflows, save time, save money without necessarily taking on a huge like cost. And then on the partner, it's being able to free up their time while still helping their clients that allow them to do more fun things that they'd prefer to be doing.

So like advisory work, strategic work, and I think understand the two is key because they're they're two very different ICPs. you know, using Ramp and partner ramp have two kind of different emotions. And for me, like especially on the first calls, it's understanding like what those emotions are, what what they want to do, what their goals are, and then making sure we're aligned and we can get them to where they want to be.

That's cool. Yeah, both are growth conversations. How do I grow my business with RAM? Exactly. But one is like, how am I managing margins and cash flow? And the other is how am I adding services to the oract how am I overd delivering on my services? That's cool. That's cool.

Yeah, 100%.

When you think about partners, like what makes a great partner? Are are you thinking about like maybe like trust within a particular segment of the market? You thinking about volume? You thinking about just like their stage of maturity? Like what are those criteria or qualities?

Yeah, I think it's all the above is is what we like ideally would want. U a firm that has the volume, has the the client base, that has a special the area specialty um and within their business.

But, you know, that's not always going to happen. understood that doesn't mean we're going to rule out anyone who doesn't meet those criteria. So for me like again it really depends on like understanding what their goals are and what like what their profile is. So it's not all just a volume game. That definely helps if they have a lot of clients. But for me it's very much so like how are you involved with your clients? How like what level of granularity are you getting into into the work you're doing and really just like understand that aspect and where what will get them to become a great partner. And then it just like what again I think it really comes down to just what motivates them like again are they do they really want to like save time and money? Do they want to make more money through the partnership? It's things like that that like I'm really trying to dig into early on. Um and I think that leads to finding partners that will then become champions and really allow us to have a win-win situation for me especially and I think ramp in general like we always look for like a win-win situation in any kind of engagement we're in but especially with our partnerships. Yeah, you mentioned something there too about the journey is like as you're starting to do this kind of discovery work, figure out their use cases, what's going to motivate them to to like really go for it in a ramp relationship? How are you thinking about like like activation like what is the what are there any like big milestones or measurement that you think about because like on the product leg growth side you're like okay key feature usage whatever but partners that's totally different but you probably have a you probably have some milestones you're think about. Yeah, especially from the partnership side, I think it's really two main focuses at least early early on and then there's one that's more post.

For me, it's very it really comes down to making sure that they have all the material and all the information to enable them to become good partners before they actually start having conversations with their clients. And that's having like weekly calls. That's making sure that I'm providing as much information. Some people need more information. Some people can kind of go off the cuff and and learn on their own and just understand that aspect of it.

but really kind of making sure that they're enabled to get to that point.

And then when it comes to like what we look for and what's sort of goals from the partnership, it's really especially early stage is getting those first few like quick wins ones. That's one question I always ask is like of your clients, which ones are more tech focused, which ones have this problem like right now. Which ones are going to be easier to move and move pretty quick?

And then after getting that information, I'm like, let's start with let's start there. So it's a you know not a burden on you to to kind of see how the motion works and I think that honestly leads to like higher adoption from the partner side and then higher engagement and just overall better ramp champions and ramp partners on that front. Um and then the activation on the client side is a little bit different. This is where more of the po post sales comes into play where for us it's again same thing making sure that they have the material and the resources to get up and running start using cards. Start using the AP side and for us it's just ultimately start using it. That's like what it comes down to is like use the card for Starbucks, use the card for pay that one invoice from your uh salesforce and just start doing it slowly. Um, and just have a little corporate, but we really have the crawl, walk, run motion because that just leads to better conversion on our side and better experience on the on the client side as well.

For sure. Is there is there like a timeline? Do you notice any trends like if a partner or maybe maybe it's more of a direct client, but like if they do this by this time, like there's a good chance they're with us for the next x period of time or if they don't do these things. Is there any window like that?

Yeah. On the partner side, um, again, it's not clear-cut. I think every partner is a little bit more unique, especially with like what's going on.

Accounting firms, if you're speaking to them around April 15th, like their timeline's going to be very long, you know. But I for from the partner side, I really try to focus on from my first conversation and understanding that they're they could potentially be a good partner is really starting to hit milestones the next week or two and really kind of keep it in a shorter amount of time on the partner side because they have so much going on um that I want to make sure that RAM stays top of mind, but also like they were able to kind of get them started because once you get that first client onboarded through the partnership, people get excited. They're ready to go. they see the value and then they it becomes more of a self-service motion where I don't have to like hold their hand or really work with them as much outside of like a monthly conversation. But on the client side, so people who are using ramp directly, we really prioritize the first 30 60 days. Like if any business, you know, goes through implementation and onboarding, like where it breaks most of the time is when onboarding is just not built out and not done efficiently. And I think Ramp does a really great job with us one passing it off to the the the right team and the onboarding team, but then having the onboarding team really work with them and making sure the first 30 to 60 days are as seamless as physically possible. Like even if we have to have five calls every week, like we'll do that to make sure that in those first 30 days they're using the card to have a good experience because then we've just seen after those 30 to 60 days again we could take a step off and then they'll start using ramp more on their own and and have a great time with it.

Oh, that's cool. And I guess on that CS side, do you have dedicated CS resource for partnerships there versus kind of other channels of the business? Yeah, and that's one of the I will say that's one of the things I think Ramp does really well and makes my life a lot easier to be very candid. I have a dedicated CSM. Shout out Mitch. He's he's he's great. But we all get um a dedicated CSM to really allow us to have continuity not just one with one client that a partner refers, but even if they bring on a 100 clients. I've worked at other organizations where they've had, you know, I get around Robin uh CSM, which isn't a bad motion, but I think the biggest complaint there is people not getting that same level consistency with all their clients because when you're thinking about from a partnership side, they're selling ramp. So, when they're selling ramp, they want to be able to say, "Hey, like this is who you're talking to from the CSM. This is what you can expect." I think having that potted or dedicated CSM to work with just makes the experience so much better on both my side as well as the partner and the and the client side as well.

Yeah, man. It's a it's it feels like the stakes are a little bit different, you know, in your in in in your section of the world. Like you're dealing with cash flow and people's direct account. Like it's not a it's not a entertainment subscription they can turn on or off and if they're building their accounting practice on your infrastructure, it's like the trust has to be super high. How do you think about building that? Like as people hear about Ramp, like you guys are everywhere. As partners are like, well, hey, I didn't realize like maybe this or that existed. We should check that out. Like what are some of the key things that you do to build trust in those exploration phases with Ramp partners?

Yeah. Something that I do and I think a lot of the the members of Ramp do as well is like we're very transparent.

We're transparent of everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I always say on my first calls like I always say don't take it take my word like look type ramp on Google and see what you can find and go to feedback boards. I'm not gonna say ramp's perfect but I think even in things that we can do better at one thing that I think ramp does really well I think is allows us to build trust is that for those things that we might be a step behind on we act really quickly to make that a priority and make it better for future clients. We there's an example I think someone tweeted at our CEO a year or two ago with a product issue that they were having and then within the hour like he responded back saying hey engineering team fix this go check it out. I think having those small having those small like those small kind of situations and really just making it very clear that we're like listening and understanding the pro like what you guys want and what you guys are seeing and the good bad and the ugly and acting on it I think has allowed us to grow the size that we that we're at today and especially for me on the first calls it's really just again being trans. I'll tell people, hey, like this is this is why you should come to ramp.

This is if you this is why you shouldn't come to the ramp and this is why some people don't move forward a ramp. And I try to give them the lay of the land and give them the resources to make their own decision. I don't I think it allows them to not feel like they're being sold to, but having more of a conversation with with a consultant or someone who's looking out for their best interest. So that's what I try to focus on a lot on these conversations.

Yeah, man. Yeah. Like digging in on that just a just a moment. You you mentioned like once there's interest and intrigue, we have a way to kind of get them in the system, start Yeah.

uh enabling them in ways like what do you find seems to be more successful?

I'm sure every partner is different, but it sounds like live interaction is is kind of like your forte in there based on just the conversation.

Do you find that to be true? Is it is it a lot of like live real time stuff or is there academy resources? Do people prefer just like you know send me some info on a doc portal like what what does enablement look like there?

Yeah and you kind of alluded to this like every partner is a little bit different. Some need more like inperson stuff. Some people are a little bit more self-service. One thing I try to focus on is no matter where they fall in that category, those first, you know, month, few weeks, whatever you may be, is having that more in person, meeting them consistently, being a resource there, and actually having conversations because that's that tends to be where they have the most amount of questions that like an academy might not be able to answer or just might not be able to answer as specifically as they need.

But then again, I I give it all credit to our like enablement team and things like that within ramp. We have so many great resources, demo environments, demo videos, whatever it may be, where once we kind of give them like, you know, the layers in the the building blocks like they can take it from there and they don't need us to really hold their hand when it comes to like understanding the product, learning new updates, things like that. But I always like to say like I am always a resource for my partners.

So if they want to have a conversation, I always I always hop on and I tend to have at least one call a month with all my partners. So, my calendar gets pretty gets pretty busy, but I think that allows for again them to answer question or ask questions and and get more specific responses that they wouldn't get just through like a portal or something like that.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. And I also feel like this there's a trend.

It's like the pendulum swinging back and forth, right? At one point, all tech companies were all live and you'd go to conferences and you would you would do pre-conference sessions and you'd get a manual and then you you know you do stuff and then and then it was like that's expensive and so then we swung and we went the other way which is it's all on demand. It's all video avatars like here's a doc portal and now I think it's probably swinging back the other way. We're like in the we're in the motion back and yeah, I think what caught my eye initially was like the amount of like live events you're a part of and the the number of things you guys host for partners and stuff like how do you think about live events and and building out kind of the partner volume, partner audience, building the trust there?

Yeah, live events are like a huge like you know like stone within Ramp. think we do a really great job of making our you know name out there with these events and we go to a lot of events and I think from a partnership perspective that's where we generate a lot of our new like conversations and a lot of our new partners because especially in the accounting space like there are so many different conferences different events to your point I think post-COVID world now everyone's kind of going back to like let's do inerson stuff that's how we actually build relationships and we can definitely touch on this later on the conversation but especially in a more AI focused world I think people like kind of stepping away from the screen and actually shaking someone's hand at an event, whether it's a conference or like a dinner or or or something that we're hosting. And for us, when it comes to like in person and live events, it's not just like getting our name out there, but it's really providing value in every event that we go to. It's not just being there and have our billboard or not billboard, but our little tent there and and have people come to us, but we want to be able to to provide updates where we can, you know, come into play in your business, things like that, and really just drive home where we could fit into your business. And I think that resonates with a lot of accounting people, accounting, uh, professionals as well as just overall businesses as well.

Yeah. when you're when you're kind of leading or hosting these events, like is there is there any sort of like magic formula that you're finding or like any any things that seem to like win more often than not? Do you find that folks are like looking at like educational things or like panels or like is it more product questions and like state of AI and accounting? Like what are you thinking about as far as like programming for that stuff?

Yeah, I think again depends on the audience that we're we're going to be at. If it's an accounting conference, I think they're a little bit more of like wanted to they don't want to like fall behind the curve and they want to be able to see what's new, what's out there, what are other people using. I think that's across all the financial space. I think it's very it's a competitive market. So, I think uh being able to enable them saying this is like what we're doing and this is why we're leading the space and why other people in your in your industry are are coming to us. So, we do a really good job in that sense in terms of getting excitement just on the products we're offering. I also think like one thing that RAM does really well at and this is more conference related events is our team are a bunch of killers like very like charismatic really personable and like very genuine where it's like we're not just trying to like introduce you to ramp we're trying to understand like what why you here today what's what's the goal you're trying to get out of this conversation and I think from the feedback I've heard that's what resonates with people is just the people they're chatting with and having that high energy and like a smile on their face which I don't think you know every organiz organization does. Um, and I think that just led led to us like a lot of success with these events.

I can agree to that. I just uh I just got back from a from an event. And I I would agree. Sometimes Yeah. Sometimes it's just the energy thing, you know? It It really is. It really is.

I think I think that comes down I think that comes down to sales in general or just like these types of conversations like you want to speak to someone that you feel a connection to or that you want to keep speaking to. And um if you have like an energy and a smile on your face, I think even for me whenever I have conversations, that's that's what I look for. So that's cool, man. I dig that. And as as you think about like bringing these teams out, obviously you guys have a pretty robust go to market strategy and system and all the team resources. Do is CS at in kind of like outward facing at all at these events too or do you find that CS mostly stays post sale? Like I'm I'm kind of curious like when they enter the conversation with your clients.

Yeah, I think when it comes to like first starting with like the live events and things like that, we do tend to have at least one or two people depending on the size of the event join. So, we have some presence there.

Again, because we're having those conversations, we want to be like, hey, if you do come over to ramp or become a partner, this is who you'd be sticking with and this is they can kind of talk on like what the experience is after we get a client on boarded. So, I think that provides a level of like granularity that they're looking for in these live events. Outside that though, when it comes to normal conversations, you know, throughout the year and having like Zoom calls or whatever it is, we tend to loop them in like after the fact. Once we get a client on boarded, then it's like, okay, this is Mitch or this is so and so who can come help. And making that introduction, but they are client spacing. They they come in, they have their own conversation to the partners. They kind of ask their own version of a discovery question to understand or to make sure that they know the onboarding that they're expecting and that they want. And then they go from there and then and off to the races. I'm super fascinated about this this particular piece of it because it feels like this matters like so much when you're crafting that plan. So, you got a partner and you're like, here's here's why they they they would want to use us. Here's what it looks like, you know, in the first 30 days. Here's what I want to happen 60 days. Here's what I want to happen. Here's the three or four people like we've got to check all these boxes for on this account. So, like how are you handing off kind of like the strategy of like here's what success looks like. Here's here's the marks we need to hit in 30 days.

Yeah. For me, one, it's just a level of detail. I I really try to rather add more information than less information when it comes to handing it off and giving them because I think that's only going to help the CSM that I'm working with.

For me though, I tend to like break it down to make my life easier when I'm man passing because I am dealing with a lot of different partners and different clients. it's a high volume is for each partner I bring on, we have those onboarding expectation conversations early on. So then I actually build out my own little doc of like this is what they're expecting. This is the these are the goals. This is how fast their clients move or how slow they move. This is what they're looking for. And I have that per uh per partner on a more broad level. So then when I actually they do refer a business over and then I get their more specific like boarding questions and what they're looking for.

I can kind of combine the two to then give that level of granularity to my CSM. So then when they are ready to have that first conversation, they're not going in blind. They know exactly what the person want, what the business wants, what they're looking for, what they're expecting. I think that's the big thing.

And I try to just do that as clearly as possible. I will preface a little bit of AI does help out with that and helps me organize a little bit, but the more detail the better is the way I look at it when it comes to passing it off and I think that's a good amount of success.

I would be disappointed if you didn't use AI in that part. I was that was next on my on my my talking point. I was like I wonder how because at the at the scale you guys do it, I mean obviously the success you've had and then at the scale you do it at is is just remarkable. So how does AI play a role then? like where are you finding that it's it's adding tons of value? Have you tried it anywhere and said, "Whoa, we're not doing that anymore." Like I'm I'm curious. Have you uh where in the partnership journey have you experienced it?

Yeah, partnerships especially feels this. I think ramp in general, if you type ramp in anywhere online, I think the first word that'll come up is velocity. Like ramp moves really quick, not just for our products, even even internally. And I think having AI within the organization helping us complete these like complete work and things like that allows us to move the the pace we want to. So for me it's a lot of automating again similar to what I'm pitching and talking to my partners is automating a lot of the tedious tasks that like take up a lot of my time but don't provide enough value to justify the time and that can be you know things I just mentioned building out that kind of game plan of the partner or follow-ups and emails. I think the biggest thing for me is like I get a crazy amount of emails every single day. So I think the most valuable part of AI is having Claude go through and pull out all the emails I might have missed or things I need to follow up with. That's where I see like the biggest value from it. One part that I actually tried using AI for and realized that like okay this might not be the best use of it is actually with my follow-ups.

Sales people claim that that's like you know the holy grail is having AI do your follow-ups for you. that probably works for a lot of people, but for me, like I tried that and it just wasn't giving that level of like like personalization and like genuiness that I wanted. So, even though I probably could and should automate that, that's one thing that I really kind of said, hey, this is going to be more of like personal thing. I'm going to take time out of my day to send these emails and follow-ups personally and not use AI for. But everything else, you know, I can automate it and it makes my life a lot easier. Allows me to provide a better experience to my partners.

Yeah, man. Yeah, it feels like there's like you said like it may not be the sexiest thing to say on LinkedIn as a hook or whatever, but you're like I can get stuff out of my email and it saves me and I can get a brief or something on like right before a call versus like scouring through a Salesforce, you know, layout and trying to figure out where those notes are. So, no, it makes a ton of sense. Oh my gosh.

And I guess like you're also in an interesting space with AI and that like you guys are a pretty AI native AI first company but you're also in a space that I would imagine like you know legacy accounting is like build by the hour auditing is very expensive hourly types of things and AI is changing business models and like the way they can do it and all that sort of stuff. So I guess candidly like what do you see the reaction? Are there do you find like there's multiple camps like we're we're all in on AI or like we hate AI it breaks everything like what's your thoughts on that with your with your partners and clients?

Yeah, with my partners specifically I think there's two kind of fronts when it comes to like opinions on AI to be transparent. I think on one front there's this new like not study but there's uh you know with the accounting space there's a lack of of workers or or graduates going into the accounting space which is a big problem especially with businesses trying to grow. So I think on that front people who fall into like smaller more and trying to grow their business high growth like they're really embracing AI because there is that lack of there's a shortage of of people you can hire. So if you can't hire someone build out an AI agent or use a platform that's more AI native to help you do your work and they're trying to bring on new clients and things like that and if they're not growing headcount then AI really kind of is something that they want to embrace. So there's definitely a positive nature on with those clients. I will say for partners that are a little bit larger or a little bit older, they've been around for a while. I think there is some skepticism with AI. I think they think that their job is going to be eliminated. They think, you know, that the hourly way, you know, what they're getting, what they're charging their clients is going to be adjusted and things like that, which is all very valid, but I think if they're able to just like test it out and try it out and actually just again use it for things that like they don't want to do, they'll see a lot of value. So whenever I speak to a partner that does fall into that side of camp, my first question when I'm trying to like bring up AI is what is like the most tedious task that you're doing. It's funny because like a minute ago they may say I hate AI and then when I ask that question they'll go this this this and I'm like well if you use this AI you can automate most of it and then focus on the things you actually enjoy doing and then their eyes kind of open.

So I think it kind of falls into two camps but we just say which one's right and which one's wrong I guess.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's it. It's like I was just I was just at an event this week and there is the the group I was presenting with just I'm trying to figure out how to say this in a way that I can say it. the group that I was presenting with, you know, has a business model where it's it's large consulting, right? And so that is time on site, you know, per staff level and all those sorts of things. But now in a world where you can basically put put intelligence on top of a model, it's like you don't need an army of people reaming through data anymore to try to find the right things. And so yeah, it's uh it's flipping everybody's model in their head. And it's what's interesting is that companies are becoming like faster and more enjoyable and all sorts of stuff but at the same time you have these workforce considerations. So 100 understand.

Well I think one of the other things that I really wanted to ask you because you have you have done this at multiple organizations building out these these partnership strategies and and systems.

If if someone's listening today to our conversation and it's like hey we've been doing these things going to market we've been doing this I really think we could leverage partners in this way or that way like maybe we have partners that we just kind of like accidentally got because we were just agile and nimble and creative on the go to market.

We're like hey that works.

Yeah.

Uh like for those folks who are like okay we need to make this a real thing.

What's one thing that you're like hey I wish I had known this when I started this whole partnership journey. like what's one thing you would share with them that was really difficult for you?

Yeah, I think one thing for me and this I'm still kind of dealing with this too is like un like really not like ruling anyone out from a partnership. I know that sounds a little broad, but I think for me the big thing is like first understanding what your business is and who could potentially be a partner, but then being okay with it being a wide net. I think that's how you're actually that's how some of the best partnership teams and and programs are built is that they're casting a wide net and then after gathering feedback having more conversations having some bad bad conversations frankly allow you to kind of narrow it in to then getting to like your ICP partner and partners that are actually going to help you drive your business as well as you drive their business and having that win-win situation. So I think one thing that a lot of partnership teams don't do is that they will have like a really really specific partner set an ICP early on and then realize a year two years later that that ICP doesn't fit and they have to do it all over again. So I think having kind of like casting a wide net and then narrowing it down is something that I think would want to know know in my previous roles as well as I think that's something that we're still kind of doing today. So that would be like the biggest thing I' I'd suggest for some building a program like that out.

That's amazing. And I like it because it's even counterintuitive. Everybody says find the niche, find the most narrow point, go there. So it sounds like, yeah, do that too. But if we go wide, then I love it. I love it, man.

Thank you for sharing that.

Of course. And I will I will I will say I will say from just one last point on that is like you don't know what you don't know. I think like sometimes partnerships is a little broader like we have different verticals within ramp. We have accounting, we also have private equity and venture capital, we have sports. Like these are all things that came about because we're like who could we work with and just having those conversations. So that's just the big reason why I think that would be that'd be helpful for businesses.

Oh, that makes total sense. Yep. It makes total sense. Goodness. Well, Stefano, this has been it's been rapid fire session today. So, thanks for thanks for hanging on. But yeah, man, I so I so love this conversation. I hope folks listening today find value.

If uh I will drop your LinkedIn URL in the show notes below. So if if you find this interesting, if you want to know more about partnerships, if you want to get connected to Ramp, uh Stefano is the person to reach out to. So I'll make sure that folks know where to find you across all the channels. Thanks for taking time on a Friday to get together, man. I appreciate it.

Appreciate you as well, man. It was great.

Awesome. Take care. Stop.